Discussion:
Epigenetics and Jung
(too old to reply)
M Winther
2007-11-13 17:15:56 UTC
Permalink
Right now a revolutionary paradigm shift is undergoing in the science
of genetics. It is called epigenetics. The term "epigenetic" refers to
heritable traits that do not involve changes to the underlying DNA
sequence. This can occur over rounds of cell division, while some
epigenetic features can effect transgenerational inheritance and are
inherited from one generation to the next. Multigenerational
epigenetics is today regarded as another aspect to evolution and
adaptation. Examples of this is the paramutation observed in maize. In
humans, epigenetic changes have been observed to occur in response to
environmental exposure, that is, a sort of Lamarckian inheritance
(Vid. Pembrey ME, Bygren LO, Kaati G, et al. Sex-specific, male-line
transgenerational responses in humans. Eur J Hum Genet 2006.)

Up to now, Carl Jung has received much critique for his notion that
the collective unconscious has acquired traits over the millennia.
Genetics has been regarded a much slower process. For instance, in
Jung, an important argument is that man's experiences during medieval
time affect us strongly today, and is the foundation on which we stand
as modern people. The medieval world, and classical antiquity, is part
of our unconscious. However, other ethnic groups, such as African
tribes, lack this layer. Other people still, such as the Chinese, have
a different configuration of the collective unconscious, although the
foundational layer is the same for all people on earth.

The young science of epigenetics can corroborate such notions. Not
only climatological, epidemic, and nutritive experiences can be
transferred to coming generations. Culture is the most fundamental
force that has shaped man's life through the aeons. Its effect is,
in all likelihood, established in the genome in a few generations.

The concept implies that genes have a 'memory'; what you do in your
lifetime, and what you are exposed to, could in turn affect your
grandchildren. Epigenetics adds a whole new layer to genes beyond the
DNA, the so called "epigenome". Among other things, it proposes a
control system of 'switches' that turn genes on or off. The things
that people experience, like nutrition and stress, can control these
switches and cause heritable effects in humans. The switches
themselves can also be inherited. This means that a 'memory' of an
event could be passed through generations. A simple environmental
effect could switch genes on or off - and this change could be
inherited.

Epigenetics will change the way the causes of disease are viewed, as
well as the importance of lifestyles and family relationships. Crucial
to Jung's theory of archetypes is the cultural forging of our
unconscious nature. Also Freud, when pressured, refused to cede with
his "Lamarckian" notions. It is a most remarkable turnover in favour
of Jung and Freud.


Mats Winther
M Winther
2007-11-14 08:20:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by M Winther
Right now a revolutionary paradigm shift is undergoing in the science
of genetics. It is called epigenetics. The term "epigenetic" refers to
heritable traits that do not involve changes to the underlying DNA
sequence. This can occur over rounds of cell division, while some
epigenetic features can effect transgenerational inheritance and are
inherited from one generation to the next. Multigenerational
epigenetics is today regarded as another aspect to evolution and
adaptation. An example of this is the paramutation observed in maize. In
humans, epigenetic changes have been observed to occur in response to
environmental exposure, that is, a sort of Lamarckian inheritance
(Vid. Pembrey ME, Bygren LO, Kaati G, et al. Sex-specific, male-line
transgenerational responses in humans. Eur J Hum Genet 2006.)
Up to now, Carl Jung has received much critique for his notion that
the collective unconscious has acquired traits over the millennia.
Genetics has been regarded a much slower process. For instance, in
Jung, an important argument is that man's experiences during medieval
time affect us strongly today, and is the foundation on which we stand
as modern people. The medieval world, and classical antiquity, is part
of our unconscious. However, other ethnic groups, such as African
tribes, lack this layer. Other people still, such as the Chinese, have
a different configuration of the collective unconscious, although the
foundational layer is the same for all people on earth.
The young science of epigenetics can corroborate such notions. Not
only climatological, epidemic, and nutritive experiences can be
transferred to coming generations. Culture is the most fundamental
force that has shaped man's life through the aeons. Its effect is,
in all likelihood, established in the genome in a few generations.
The concept implies that genes have a 'memory'; what you do in your
lifetime, and what you are exposed to, could in turn affect your
grandchildren. Epigenetics adds a whole new layer to genes beyond the
DNA, the so called "epigenome". Among other things, it proposes a
control system of 'switches' that turn genes on or off. The things
that people experience, like nutrition and stress, can control these
switches and cause heritable effects in humans. The switches
themselves can also be inherited. This means that a 'memory' of an
event could be passed through generations. A simple environmental
effect could switch genes on or off - and this change could be
inherited.
Epigenetics will change the way the causes of disease are viewed, as
well as the importance of lifestyles and family relationships. Crucial
to Jung's theory of archetypes is the cultural forging of our
unconscious nature. Also Freud, when pressured, refused to cede with
his "Lamarckian" notions. It is a most remarkable turnover in favour
of Jung and Freud.
Mats Winther
I'm no expert in genetics, but I want to make some clarifications in
order to avoid misunderstanding. The DNA sequence, as I understand it,
is only part of the genome. The rest, which was earlier viewed as
redundant rubbish, is now termed epigenome. Epigenetics adds a whole
new layer to genes beyond the DNA. There are connections between the
epigenome and the DNA. So, it's correct to say that heredity does not
only involve DNA. Heredity is also coupled with the genome outside the
DNA.

Heredity is not only a mechanism that occurs over generations. It also
occurs in cell divisions inside living beings. Inheritance of genes
can also occur between individuals of bacteria, or between plants of
different species, even. In this case virus vectors are believed to
carry strands of genome to the other individual.

Earlier it was believed that the genome of one's direct descendants'
will be the same as the genome determined at the moment of your own
and your partner's conception. This was regarded as an unshakable
truth. Genes hardly ever changed over the course of one's life. This
scientific "truth" is now wholly shattered. Factors in the epigenome
can change due to environmental cause. Genes in the DNA can be
switched on or off. These changes in the genome can be transported to
the next generation. Changes can be transported to the sexual gametes.
This is proven without doubt in research, but researchers have only
begun to unravel the secrets of the epigenome.

Epigenetics opens up new vistas for psychoanalysis, too. Take autism,
for example. Blaming the parents has proven unjustified. But what if
the autism in the child was caused by earlier generations? In autism
we often observe this phenomenon of a regress at a certain age. The
child seems to develop normally, but at a certain stage it's like a
gene-switch is turned on (or off), and with time the child turns
autistic. It makes the impression of epigenetic programming. So the
truth about autistic psychogenesis might lie somewhere between a
Kleinian view and the traditional geneticist's view.

What about NPD? There is certainly something "autistic" about severe
cases of narcissistic personality disorder. Could it be that the
"sins" of earlier generations causes this plague to surface in later
generations? Evidently, we are responsible of our own genes, like a
garden that we have to tend.

The greater plasticity of hereditary traits implies that we are
finally relieved of those "hereditarian elitists", on lines of the
Aryan race, and whatnot. If you suffer from "bad genes" you can
improve them in your lifetime, by an upstanding life in every sense.
If you have "good genes", then you are capable of destroying this
advantage and get narcissistic grandchildren. This is a downright
catastrophe, both morally and genetically!

If you want to promote your own progeny, personal responsibility and
high morality becomes more important than ever. Apart from this, one's
conduct of life could affect any people whom one socializes with.
While they are psychologically affected they are also epigenetically
affected.

The term 'epigenetics' is also used elsewhere, but differently.
Waddington introduced the term. He uses it in describing embryonic
development. Psychoanalyst Erik Erikson also employs the term, but
here it concerns psycho-social factors.


Mats Winther
samvaknin
2007-11-14 16:42:14 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Genetics and Personality Disorders

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders27.html

The Genetic Underpinnings of Narcissism

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal43.html

Narcissism at a Glance

http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissismglance.html

Misdiagnosing Narcissism - Asperger's Disorder

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal72.html

Misdiagnosing Personality Disorders as Asperger's Disorder

http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders62.html

For a more detailed view of pathological narcissism and the
Narcissistic
Personality Disorder (NPD) - click on these links:

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/npdglance.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/narcissismglance.html

Other Personality Disorders

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faqpd.html

Take care.

Sam
Trinacrium
2007-11-14 17:54:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by samvaknin
Hi,
Genetics and Personality Disorders
http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders27.html
The Genetic Underpinnings of Narcissism
http://samvak.tripod.com/journal43.html
Narcissism at a Glance
http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissismglance.html
Misdiagnosing Narcissism - Asperger's Disorder
http://samvak.tripod.com/journal72.html
Misdiagnosing Personality Disorders as Asperger's Disorder
http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders62.html
For a more detailed view of pathological narcissism and the
Narcissistic
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/npdglance.html
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/narcissismglance.html
Other Personality Disorders
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faqpd.html
Take care.
Sam
Nice to be avoiding MI5 for a moment.
There's a lot to this. However, it is again something that was known
to the ancients in a more useful form. The visitation of the
iniquities of the fathers on the sons (Exodus 20:5) was known prior to
Epigenetics. It is of interest that the ancients perceived and arrived
at conclusions science is just now finding by deduction. This linking
back to following-the-tracks, inductive reasoning, in part, is the
great contribution of Jung. Rather than succumb to the reductive-
ridiculus mus of his age, he chose the broadest context, viewing the
organism as a human being, in its entirety, organic, cultural,
historical, environmental, ill, healthy, stressed, and relaxed.

No dissection, or rubber garment test, can deliver the truth as
accurately. Epigenetics as a temporal analogy, a limited paradigm, it
will, as is everything in science, be replaced with something else -
the new paradigm-- and be forgotten. But rubber garments are making a
come back.

Kenneth McAll, psychiatrist and Anglican priest, made Epigentics his
life work in away. His source was Chinese family tree veneration. His
methods, backed by his psychiatry, would find, for example, an
alcoholic, perhaps 20 generations back. A Christian ritual would be
offered up for that pitiful persona, and the afflicted individual, the
present day patient, would be cured. Dreams in this area are
fascinating. The family history, as you may allude, seems to relate to
layers of the unconscious.
Ron
M Winther
2007-11-15 10:16:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trinacrium
Nice to be avoiding MI5 for a moment.
There's a lot to this. However, it is again something that was known
to the ancients in a more useful form. The visitation of the
iniquities of the fathers on the sons (Exodus 20:5) was known prior to
Epigenetics. It is of interest that the ancients perceived and arrived
at conclusions science is just now finding by deduction. This linking
back to following-the-tracks, inductive reasoning, in part, is the
great contribution of Jung. Rather than succumb to the reductive-
ridiculus mus of his age, he chose the broadest context, viewing the
organism as a human being, in its entirety, organic, cultural,
historical, environmental, ill, healthy, stressed, and relaxed.
No dissection, or rubber garment test, can deliver the truth as
accurately. Epigenetics as a temporal analogy, a limited paradigm, it
will, as is everything in science, be replaced with something else -
the new paradigm-- and be forgotten. But rubber garments are making a
come back.
Kenneth McAll, psychiatrist and Anglican priest, made Epigentics his
life work in away. His source was Chinese family tree veneration. His
methods, backed by his psychiatry, would find, for example, an
alcoholic, perhaps 20 generations back. A Christian ritual would be
offered up for that pitiful persona, and the afflicted individual, the
present day patient, would be cured. Dreams in this area are
fascinating. The family history, as you may allude, seems to relate to
layers of the unconscious.
Ron
Thanks for the reference to McAll. Evidently he deals in "Ancestral
Healing" in books such as 'A Guide to Healing the Family Tree' and
'Healing the Haunted'. It's spoky stuff, resembling primitive peoples'
coping with the destructive influencs from "ancestral spirits". But it
could have a bearing on epigenetics.

Dr. McAll shows in case studies that people suffering from a variety
of illnesses are being influenced from members of previous
generations. The author, being a priest, identifies the ancestor who
is doing the "haunting" and treats them as a soul in need of help and
release. He tells us that healing, to the afflicted party, lies in
confession, forgiveness, mass, a strong spiritual life with God, and
attendance at the Eucharist.

Mats Winther

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